Doug and Kenzie go back in time to Sarah’s 2nd session. The breakdown for this episode happens in real time throughout the session. Sarah begins to tell some of her story about growing up in a cult. Doug acknowledges her strength and resilience in the “survival” of her experiences while paving the way to work towards the “thrival” of her life going forward. We explore Sarah’s parenting style and Doug hints at the parallel of how Sarah can heal through re-parenting herself.

Sarah is confronted with her past trauma history after learning that a parent at her child’s school knows about Sarah's upbringing in a cult. She navigates a conversation to clear the air because that parent is reluctant to allow her child over to Sarah’s rumored “cult house.” Doug acknowledges that Sarah handled the situation without going into “justice warrior” mode, even though her emotions were triggered. Sarah says that she’s glad to have had that conversation with a year of therapy under her belt. She’s come a long way and is now embracing being a trauma survivor – without feeling like a victim. Because, “How can you victimize somebody for being victimized?”

Doug and Kenzie go back in time to Drew’s first therapy session - and their breakdown happens in real time throughout the session. They have the benefit of listening to him then while knowing where he is now in his therapeutic treatment and progress years later. You can listen along with them to this initial meeting as Drew shares some of his history and Doug lays the groundwork for their future work. We hear the beginnings of some of the analogies that Drew and Doug use throughout his journey in therapy.

Join us for a personal and open conversation with two very special guests: actress and comedian, Maria Bamford, and podcast host extraordinaire, Georgia Hardstark. These amazing women, whose memoirs have each reached the New York Times bestsellers list, chat with Doug and Kenzie in this intimate and vulnerable episode. They discuss their perspectives and experiences as public figures being authentic, transparent, and outspoken about mental health and mental illness.

Doug and Kenzie go back in time to Sarah’s first therapy session - and their breakdown happens in real time throughout the session. They have the benefit of listening to her then while knowing where she is now in her therapeutic treatment and progress one year later. You can listen along with them to this initial meeting as Sarah shares some of her history and Doug lays the groundwork for their future work. Sarah acknowledges that she’s spent a lifetime compartmentalizing, but doesn’t truly have a handle on everything. We hear the beginnings of some of the analogies that Sarah and Doug use throughout her journey in therapy.

We’re back from our summer break, and getting right back into it with Drew and his brand new baby. We hear a lot in this session that Drew needs to dump out. He is feeling like he’s not enough - as a dad, a partner, and a person not taking care of his own needs. Drew struggles to find balance and expresses feeling uncomfortable in the extremely lukewarm middle. He says he’s done himself dirty over the last week because he let his fears outweigh his courage. He isn’t loving how he’s been present in moments, which is magnified now with a newborn. Being a new dad also helps Drew draw a link to how he was parented by his mom. Doug helps him reevaluate what being effective means. Drew acknowledges that he isn’t free falling the way he used to, and that he is happy to unload in therapy. 

Doug throws a little science and neural linguistic programming at Kenzie to demonstrate how using certain language in session with clients can help in their pursuit of change. Kenzie and Doug highlight Sarah’s progress as it’s becoming more natural and instinctive for her to ask for help when she needs it. Sarah acknowledges the evolution of her relationship to control and boundaries. She continues to explore the idea from her last session about the rigidity of her religion of data. Sarah feels progress, and she still feels stress and anxiety, as she notes, “I don’t feel unrelaxed.” Doug introduces Spoon Theory to help understand our relationship to the energy and bandwidth we have in a given day.

Kenzie is jacked up on caffeine and we’re getting existential in this one. In the session, Drew emotionally retells the story of the birth of his child and the traumatic experience he went through in the hospital. Along with a new baby boy, comes a heaping dose of existential anxiety. Doug bears witness and helps Drew process an emotional release. He already feels a parental responsibility for his child’s life, and with it, he also feels a real fear of death for the first time in his life. Now more than ever, Drew has a deep appreciation for the preciousness of life and a motivation to be truly present for moments as they happen.

Doug and Kenzie discuss the hotly debated topic of whether or not repressed memories are real. In the session, Sarah revisits some traumatic memories of growing up in the cult. As she moves towards her own emotional experience, Doug helps explain her dissociation and offers tools with an intellectual understanding of her trauma response. Sarah can see it objectively by looking at a sibling’s rigidity as a similar but different trauma response, then she applies that same lens to herself. It’s a back door therapeutic technique to help build her compassion for self. They are laying the groundwork for making her feel safe and supported before going too deep into the raw emotion. Doug and Kenzie break down taking this route to process complex childhood trauma rather than the direct emotional route.

Doug and Kenzie discuss the question of whether or not people can actually change. In Drew’s session, his thoughts meander so Doug throws a few things out to see what sticks. They work through Drew’s thoughts about being prepared for fatherhood and his feelings about protecting his son from the bad experiences he had growing up. Drew expresses feeling like he’s missing out on mile markers of having a baby by not being present enough. This leads him to the root of grief for his own childhood, especially in light of going through transitions into adulthood with an unstable relationship with his parents. Doug and Kenzie break down the arc of a session and seeing the forest for the trees, especially when a client comes in talking about lots of trees. Doug shows how progress in therapy is like a river that flows in a forward direction even when it’s a babbling brook. And Beckett finally joins Kenzie on the couch!

Doug helps Sarah stay in the moment and allow emotions to come up. She acknowledges being more comfortable in constant motion and hypervigilance mode when she is more focused on “doing” rather than “feeling.” We hear a pivotal moment in her therapy when Sarah reads a poem she wrote as a eulogy for the motto “Keep Calm, Sarah Will Handle It.” It is an emotional goodbye and homage to her old self that embodied the motto she literally wore on a t-shirt that her siblings made for her. Sarah can envision a path ahead as a new version of herself that doesn’t try to handle everything for everyone all the time. As she says, she’ll “Keep calm, then move out of the way.”

Drew digs deeper into his core thought that his self-worth depends on how good of a provider he is to his family. Doug helps Drew explore taking care of himself in a healthy way rather than working so hard to provide that he keeps spinning plates until he gets overloaded and shuts down. Doug reframes the see-saw concept of a work-life balance to it all being under the umbrella of life with a balance of work, rest, and play. Drew draws the link to how the current imbalance is affecting his relationship and intimacy in his life right now. Kenzie breaks down how your individual dreams don’t have to die just because you’re in a relationship.

Sarah is interacting with the world around her slightly differently. Doug invites her to experiment with what it’s like to be the observer, especially when interacting with her siblings. Sarah is shifting from the person that tries to fix or correct everyone to the person that can just notice something happening without taking it personally. She realizes that sometimes the most powerful thing she can say is nothing. Kenzie and Doug break down the current progress and process of re-wiring Sarah’s brain without making it overtly clinical.

Drew sees progression and growth in his relationship with a friend, but doesn’t see it with his parents. Drew has an epiphany about his relationship with them that he names “conditional love,” as he is more aware of how he people-pleases in order to feel love from them. Doug helps Drew slow down and process his thoughts and feelings about the evolving relationship with his parents. Drew acknowledges feeling embarrassed, frustrated, and disappointed in who they are now, especially as it might reflect on how people see him. Doug validates his feelings and reflects it back to him before helping Drew reframe it. By radically accepting his mom as she is, he can see that she might be showing him love the way she is capable, rather than the way his love language usually recognizes it. 

Doug and Sarah reflect on how growing up in a cult stripped her of agency and individuality in her own life. She is reclaiming her individuality and feeling strength in her sense of self now. Doug and Sarah make the link from this to the issue she has with control. Sarah walks through a specific example when one of her sisters was driving her car. Sarah processes the anxiety and feelings around letting go of control and spoke up for something selfishly – meaning she was taking take of herself. Doug and Kenzie break down how we can process anxiety when it hits for all of us by staying mindful and present focused instead of going back into our past or future tripping. And they actually go over a couple of tools that we can all take with us.

Drew has a birthday coming up and a few doctors’ appointments on the horizon. He is able to organize his thoughts and come up with a plan both for addressing his medical health and for celebrating his birthday. Doug helps Drew acknowledge that he is not responsible for his parents’ response to him and his boundaries. Drew is adulting! Doug and Kenzie are feeling it – literally – as an earthquake hits during recording.

Sarah acknowledges being in a constant battle with herself because of how she wants to hear feedback from others for things she has done. She has a hard time accepting praise; and, she doesn’t mind constructive criticism if it helps her grow. Doug helps her make sense of getting comfortable without having feedback be the validation. Doug and Kenzie break down external versus internal validation and the drive to be perfect versus doing your personal best. They discuss what it is to be good enough and how “meets expectations” isn’t a negative thing. Striving for perfection is about doing your best, which can be “good enough” if we allow it to be. However, many of us feel that we’re not doing enough unless something is done perfectly, especially when there’s a historical experience of criticism and an internal voice in our head constantly criticizing us. What does doing your personal best mean to you? Can that be good enough or does it need to be perfect?

Drew is feeling independence and individuation from parents, especially when he signs a lease on a new place without using them as the guarantor. He had a breakaway moment after mom didn’t show up the way he wanted her to on a phone call. He felt solitude and the “solid-tude” of relying on himself not on his parents and the anxious-attachment style that often lets him down. Drew is experiencing what it’s like to choose himself and put his needs first ahead of everyone else, instead of his old pattern of putting his needs last. Doug helps him understand what it means to show up for someone the way they want, rather than the way he wants them to show up for him. It’s not about mind reading - it’s about communicating what would be supportive to you and asking someone what feels supportive to them.

Sarah is going through all the emotions with her teenager and the situation he got into at school this week. While she continues to practice using natural consequences to parent her kids, she is also allowing herself to have her own emotional experience. Sarah is re-parenting herself by letting her kids to come to her and giving them the space to feel their feelings and sit with it (something she didn’t have growing up). She acknowledges the challenges of not acting on her instant reaction in these parenting situations, especially when interacting with her ex-husband. Sarah is able to stop and process before just going to her default protective mode to either fix the triggering event right away or bear the brunt of the consequences herself to shield her children (like she did for her siblings growing up in a cult). Sarah is healing her inner child!

Doug helps Drew focus on himself, not just the baby on the way. Drew admits that he isn’t feeling joy in things the way he’s used to feeling it and that it’s taking him out of the present. Drew realizes that he’s looking for the joy instead of being in the moment and letting the joy find him. This leads Drew to acknowledge the existential anxiety that he’s also been feeling. Doug and Kenzie discuss anhedonia and sitting with clients when they are experiencing this feeling. They also talk about what happens when we may have missed something in a session as a therapist or feeling like our therapist missed something as a client. Have we missed something else, let us know… or if you’ve missed something, check out the podcast archives and listen to Drew and Sarah from day one of their journey in therapy!

Doug helps Sarah move forward along a path toward her emotions. They discuss her learned pattern of being dismissive of herself and her feelings. The pursuit of data and facts that turns Sarah into the “justice warrior” is a defense mechanism to not feel the feelings. Doug uses an analogy with Spock and Kirk to highlight a spectrum of being logically driven versus being emotionally driven. Sarah connects this to how she can sound like a robot sometimes while suppressing and invalidating her own feelings. Doug invites Sarah to give herself permission to bring out her inner Captain Kirk so she can practice allowing her emotions to come up and out.

Drew is feeling like an adult and living in the world. He acknowledges feeling strength where he used to feel weakness in asking for help. He’s getting support in his life by virtue of actually asking for help from others rather than doing everything on his own. Doug and Drew talk about the subtle differences between being an individual and being independent. Doug and Kenzie discuss the therapeutic relationship as a secure attachment. With this secure base to jump off from, Doug is able to challenge Drew, and Drew is able to explore his independence.

Sarah is experiencing the difference between being of value at work and being the singular essential piece that also carries with it all the responsibility and pressure. She notices how she’s starting to relax a bit and soften her edges when she isn’t in complete control. Doug helps Sarah acknowledge how the control issue arose to protect herself as a child growing up in a cult, but it isn’t serving her well now in her adult life. Doug invites her to come out of the protective shell to feel her own emotional experience rather than stay “safe” inside and keep her feelings internalized. Kenzie presses Doug to break down the abundant use of analogy and personal stories in session rather than stay in Sarah’s own personal experiences and emotions. They find that the analogies, especially the airplane one, really do land for Sarah… do they land for you too?

Doug and Kenzie talk about connecting to your inner child. Then in the session, Drew is adulting and creating distance from his parents while preparing to be a father himself. Doug digs deeper with Drew in the session to get to the emotions underneath all the progress we see and hear on the outside. Doug explains an analogy of photographs to show how we often perceive (and misperceive) people. There are polaroid snapshots from one instance in time and there are “Harry Potter” pictures that constantly move and change - but neither is a true moving picture of our actual life now. The images someone has in mind of us don’t necessarily line up with how we really are now. We want people to see us and know us for who we are, but we are constantly changing. This gets murky when we put up walls and present false pictures to people, especially family members.

Sarah keeps learning and exploring in therapy – and her family is noticing the change in her and the progress she’s made as a result. Doug explains how and why he uses stories and analogies so often in sessions. It’s an effective way to make a concept less clinical and more relatable and memorable for clients. He names a sensation for Sarah, “The Scooby-Doo Effect,” when the cartoon bodies get scared out of their skins then later join back together. This helps highlight the concept of how Sarah is now catching up with herself after being in a heightened cortisol state of fight or flight to get through an event or experience. From this place, Sarah can take stock of what she just went through and process it.

Drew’s adulting! He is practicing parenting himself, in preparation for his baby on the way. Drew acknowledges feeling anxious about how his parents will react to the pregnancy news he has yet to share with them. Doug challenges Drew to stay focused on himself and bring his emotions out to alleviate the anticipatory anxiety. Doug and Kenzie look at what it means to “Double down, don't shut down." We can hear Drew name and feel the feelings in the session and release some of the judgement he’s been holding inside. As he says, “Being able to say it our loud helps me not avoid it.”

Sarah follows up on last session’s “wow moment” about using the concept of natural consequences rather than being judge and jury when giving a punishment. Sarah is re-parenting herself while effectively parenting her kids. People around Sarah are starting to notice a difference in her as a result of her processing in therapy and making previously unconscious habits and patterns more conscious. Doug helps Sarah uncover a moment in her past when her emotional expression was literally shut down by being told that “No one cares.” We’ll see if Sarah can give herself permission to go back to a time in her life when it was safe to express herself before she learned to shut it down.

It’s the return of Drew to the podcast! We check in with his health, and the stress he’s feeling as a 26 year old adult with a baby on the way. Doug challenges Drew with tough love to see his pattern of trying to avoid present issues. Drew says he keeps everything up in the air where he doesn’t have to catch it and face it. He is able to take his head out of the sand and look between the immediate financial pressures and the larger picture of existential anxiety. Drew sees, and feels, what he’s really avoiding - his emotional experience in the here and now. He is able to go there in session with Doug, and express feeling like he wants to cry, laugh, and punch a wall.

Doug introduces the concept of natural consequences to Sarah as opposed to being judge and jury as a parent, even if the punishment fits the crime. Sarah acknowledges that she is not failing as a parent; rather, she is growing as a parent. She points out that her growth is carrying over to other aspects of her life. Sarah calls Doug “the Sarah whisperer,” and Doug turns this around and reminds her that she is the one whispering to herself and growing. She is, in effect, actively re-parenting herself – and we hear it happening in this session. In the breakdown, Doug and Kenzie talk about how to know which direction to take a client during a session, especially when there are moments with multiple possibilities to process. Therapy is like a ‘Choose Your Own Adventure’ book – if only real life let us peak ahead at the options before choosing!

We’re back! Doug is joined by Kenzie on the breakdown and they pick up right where Sarah left off in her therapy sessions. Sarah has been listening to podcasts featuring other people’s experiences in cults, which gets her intellectualizing how growing up in a cult still affects issues of power and control in her life now. Doug helps Sarah get into the emotion by putting the focus on “her” own personal story and subjective relationship with “her” parents in the cult, rather than looking objectively at “one's” experience and “one’s” parents. Doug tells Sarah a story about working with a teenager to highlight how someone can access their deeper feelings by allowing anger to come out first rather than suppressing it with restraint or punishment. Sarah is motivated to let anger come up and come out to get to the real feelings that she’s compartmentalized.

We discuss the issue of “control” after it came up in our small talk about parties, drugs, and past behavior. Sarah sees clearly how the abuse she suffered in the cult as a child triggers her so profoundly in her current life. She is starting to make a connection of how setting personal boundaries can keep her safe, especially when anxiety comes. Sarah is now personalizing her experiences, as evidenced by her saying “I” at several points in the session rather than referring to the general “one” or “you.” Doug tells a story about camping with his dog that helps Sarah express her own feelings about freedom and safety. It’s a great benchmark moment in their therapy for Sarah to have identified a frame of reference for those feelings.

Sarah was super busy at work, had drama with her ex, and then got Covid! In session, she expresses that it’s hard for her to say no to anyone, especially her children. Doug helps her stay with the emotion and process “disappointment." Sarah recognizes that she had been running on adrenaline and that she needs to take care of herself. Doug highlights this as her having a personal boundary even in the face of disappointing her son. Is this the beginning of a new neural pathway in her brain that allows her to take care of herself and not constantly put others’ needs ahead of her own?

Drew is feeling “confident alone” rather than “scared alone.” He describes it like being the driver of the car of his own life and holding the steering wheel himself. He is less co-dependent and not feeling so impacted by triggers and the old wound of abandonment by mom. From this place, Drew is living for himself - although he drops big news at the end of the session indicating that he definitely won’t be living just for himself anymore in about nine months!

Sarah has sense memories in the present that trigger some traumatic experiences from her upbringing in a cult. She depersonalized her trauma in the cult as a defense mechanism, but she is now able to go through it in therapy. From this more secure and stable place, Sarah is starting to connect emotionally to her own life with understanding and compassion.

Drew went back home to his parent’s house to re-ground himself. He’s been able to practice how to be present with his parents and not take on the full responsibility for their well-being. Although Drew feels more adult, Doug takes a tack of challenging him in session rather than the “fluff” of praising him and just using unconditional positive regard. Drew loves the challenge approach and is able to explore how he is starting to feel like an adult, but still acting like a child. In Drew’s own words, he said, “I think I’m still learning how to be an adult in the process of learning how to be a parent, in the process of figuring out my childhood.”

Sarah is learning not to take ownership of someone else’s feelings. She is still owning her part in triggering someone, but she is starting to allow others to be not ok without having to fix it. Sarah is no longer accepting her old default that there’s something’s wrong with her, or that she needs to fix every uncomfortable situation. Doug points out that she is embodying the Carl Rogers quote, “When I accept myself as I am, then I can change.” Sarah has accepted herself as a trauma survivor and is “lit tur uh lee” reshaping her brain.

Doug provides the space to let Drew complain about his job and his boss – something many of us can relate to feeling! Outside of work, Drew is feeling like a grown-up as he individuates from his parents. He is relating to his dad as a fellow adult rather than as a child that needs his father’s approval. He’s redefining the emotional ties he has to his family while he lives his own life for himself.

Sarah shares memories and scenes that are coming up now from her past as a child growing up in the Children of God cult. Since being in therapy, she is putting pieces of her past together with new perspective and understanding of how it has impacted her life. Sarah is able to verbalize her thoughts and process her feelings with Doug about some of the abuse she endured as a child. ***Trigger warning*** This episode contains potentially triggering and sensitive topics including child abuse. If you suspect or know that a child is being abused or neglected, call or text 800-4-A-CHILD (800-422-4453). Professional crisis counselors are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, in over 170 languages. All calls are confidential.

Drew is not forcing a change externally to feel better internally, having recently come out of a depressive episode. Doug reflects that he might be feeling better in part because he’s allowing himself to be present in the journey not because he reached an end destination. Drew applies this to moving his home right now, and says that he’s able to “trust the process” with both the move and the unknown in general in his life. Drew then drops a “banger” on Doug at the tail end of the session related to his thoughts on not wanting to see a doctor about his heart condition.

Sarah explores how impactful it was to not have someone that at least tried to protect her as a child growing up in a cult. Doug reinforces the concept that she’s now re-parenting herself when she uncovers old wounds and tends to them. Sarah also protects herself by gathering data, like with her upcoming eye surgery. As a protective measure, data collection help Sarah feel more in control. It’s neither good nor bad; it’s just giving herself familiarity with something unknown to reduce feeling anxious, powerless, and not in control.

Drew is finding his groove again after a three month depressive episode. We highlight “inter-dependence” in his relationships right now in contrast to the people pleasing and co-dependence that marked most of his previous relationships. Drew is setting his boundaries and not feeling guilty about moving away from the people that have “done me dirty,” while leaning into the people that have “done me right.”

Sometimes feeling misunderstood can lead to self-realization. Ouch, Meredith! Sarah sees herself objectively after hearing Mer’s reaction to her from an earlier session. This leads Sarah to explore her protective mechanism of correction and hyper vigilance when there is a problem in her life. Doug encourages Sarah to sit with the emotion for a moment and validate the experience before taking an action to fix an issue. He introduces the idea of looking at things with a sense of curiosity versus correction.

Doug recaps the lost audio from session #86 with Drew comparing his depressive episode to turbulence on an airplane, and how we can manage our way through it. In the current session #87, Drew reflects on being able to stay present in the day-to-day experience of his life rather than getting caught up with what the next six months, year, or two years will look like – especially in his relationship with his girlfriend.

Sarah attends a memorial for her cousin and is triggered at the service by seeing an abuser from her past in the cult. She is able to compartmentalize in the moment, let it out later with her family, and then process it with Doug in therapy. Sarah could be present in her own experience as it was happening and then acknowledge and process the emotions that came up in a safe space.

Sarah is feeling overwhelmed with a lot of little things stressing her out and one big thing coming up – her cousin’s memorial. Doug helps Sarah stop and breathe, so she can acknowledge and process some of her grief and feelings of guilt.

Sarah links her current feeling of powerlessness with her past experiences of powerlessness in the cult and in her previous marriage. Doug helps Sarah go to an emotional place and process from there, rather than go to an intellectualized place, or get anxious and shut down. Sarah uses therapy to help carve new neural pathways in her brain and shape new patterns of behavior by consciously shifting what she does and how she does it.

In the safe space of a therapy session, Drew is able to verbalize and explore his suicidal thoughts and the feelings of guilt, shame, and embarrassment. They talk about the stress and pressure from the expectations that Drew puts on himself. In the breakdown, Meredith and Doug continue to process what came up in the session and some of what they do professionally and personally when clients have suicidal thoughts.

An incident with her daughter sparks Sarah’s feelings of anger and powerlessness. Doug helps her draw the link to her emotional experience in the cult. Sarah is able to stay with her emotions rather than intellectualize them or try to fix the situation. They begin processing the feelings in session that she’s been holding onto most of her life.

Doug helps Drew use a metaphoric pie chart to understand where his energy goes and where his stress comes from in his life right now. 

Sarah tells the story of her life as a teenager after escaping the cult she grew up in as a child. Doug helps her see where some patterns started with her only focusing right in front of her, staying hyper vigilant, and never dropping the ball or giving up control.

From the vantage point of his new job and a regular paycheck, Drew looks back objectively with appreciation at some of the things he was doing for work the past 18 months. He gets support from his girlfriend/not-girlfriend as he finds his new speed.

Drew got a new job and feels like he’s taking a couple steps back mentally but he’s taking ten steps forward emotionally. Although he's overqualified for this job, he has the perspective of feeling a sense of mastery in what he's doing. We look at concepts of success, balance, and confidence building.

Drew is allowing himself to slow down and experience all of the emotions coming up right now rather than just “getting through it” or numbing away from it. He acknowledges that his roots at the bottom feel solid while at the top, he can be a reed blowing with the wind and not fighting it. He feels like an Evergreen, baby!

Drew gets emotional as he copes with a hard week in the midst of a depressive episode. Drew expresses that he needed the safety net of parents this week and didn’t get it. He’s now feeling alone in the world, questioning his purpose, and not feeling much hope. Doug helps Drew acknowledge that much of this is a function of being more independent and not relying on others to feel better. It’s also a function of Drew doubling down not shutting down, and processing these emotions rather than running from them. Doug holds the space for Drew to feel the feelings.

Drew is feeling depressed. Things are going good, but he’s not feeling good. During this period of time, Drew feels like something internal is missing – he’s not enjoying anything on his own and pushes back whenever Doug looks at his connection to others. Drew gets emotional and they are able to sit with the feelings of just being “in the grey.”

As a sign of vulnerability, trust, and the safe space of therapy, Sarah allows herself to cry in session and feel the loss of her cousin. Doug helps her stay with the feelings and express what is coming up for her in these initial stages of grief.

Drew is feeling lukewarm, anhedonia, and meh rather than being in the high highs or the low lows. He’s understanding what it’s like being somewhere in the middle and not being at 0 or at 100. Drew recognizes that he used to need a partner or his parents to validate his experience. Now he's experiencing being alone and not lonely. He’s embracing having an experience on his own then sharing that with others - as long as he's not misunderstood...

Doug and his mom open with a discussion about multiple personality disorder and her previous work in therapy with clients coming out of cults. In the session, Sarah acknowledges never allowing herself to fully feel the anger she’s held onto from her own upbringing in a cult.

Doug helps Drew go deeper to explore the concept of a safety net by processing his all-in, all-out mentality. Drew goes to an emotional place when they talk about feeling abandoned, betrayed, and neglected by the inconsistency of his parents not being there for him.

For this episode we check in with Drew, the client from Season 1 whose episodes are continuing on Patreon.com (link below). Drew wants to be doing more to do less, as he copes with the stress of his recent heart attack. Drew processes his parents not showing up to support him the way he needs and wants them. Speaking of which, Doug is supported on the breakdown by a special guest therapist – his mom!

Drew explores the idea of his parents as a safety net without dependence or co-dependence in their relationship. Doug and Drew look at the concept of allowing someone to do something supportive for you, rather than depending entirely on somebody that could let you down. Mer digs into whether Drew's girlfriend is really his girlfriend or not.

Drew comes in with a high level of anxiety after going to the emergency room for a heart event. Doug helps Drew process the anxiety in the session. Drew is able to bring his level of anxiety down over the course of the session. Doug and Drew explore getting support from his “family of choice” while processing the disappointment he feels from his family of origin.

Sarah describes taking herself through worst case scenarios to prepare herself for a situation, so she can avoid the shock and broken heart that might otherwise overwhelm her. That protective mechanism once served her, but now creates a disconnect from her actual emotional experience of life...

Drew describes what it’s like to go through highs and lows by himself with the support of people around him. Doug and Drew explore what it means to have the validation that comes when we can say "thank you" and "you’re welcome" without qualifying it, dismissing it, or deflecting it. Practice saying, "Thank you." Period.

Doug helps Drew acknowledge and process feeling down in the dumps, for seemingly no reason. They talk about the difference between feeling depressed or being in a depressive episode. Drew explains what an “episode” means to him after Doug reads him a portion of a transcript from their session a year ago when he felt something similar.

Doug helps Sarah process grief in real time after she just learned of a family member’s failing health while in the hospital. Sarah is able to acknowledge having different feelings spiraling at the same time right now. Doug walks with her through some of the stages of grief that are actively coming up in the session - shock, denial, guilt, bargaining, and anger.

Drew looks at his new 26-year-old life as an adult feeling his independence and confidence growing. He acknowledges that his parents can still be a safety net. While separated from his current girlfriend, he tests himself by having lunch with his ex-girlfriend. Drew is actively building ego strength – he’s applying what he’s been learning in therapy by seeing things externally and making changes internally.

Doug helps Sarah acknowledge that she is actively creating new neural pathways by doing things differently from her patterned way of being and doing. Sarah gives herself permission to see the changes in her behavior this past week as growth and progress in her therapeutic journey – it’s not just a fluke!

Drew is allowing himself to be who he really wants to be in his relationships with family, friends, and work – as well as with his girlfriend while they’re separated. He is actively letting go of old ideas and discovering what it’s like to not go "over and above" or "put on the cape" to rescue everyone, everywhere, all the time. It’s the middle way! Doug is joined by his colleague and practice mate, Sasha Brodsky, for the clinical breakdown. They discuss issues of trust, judgement, awareness, and the internal preparedness and sense of safety that Drew is developing.

We explore Sarah’s conditioning from her upbringing in the Children of God cult. “Trauma is a radioactive spider that bites.” It can lead you to develop powers of protection and systems of safety for your survival. Then we’ve got to learn what to do with that power because we might not need those defenses and protections in our life anymore at every moment. We also explore the idea of value – especially as it impacts self-worth.

We explore the “systems of safety” that Sarah developed as a child growing up in a cult to protect herself because no one else did. We can thank those defense mechanisms for doing such a good job of protecting us when a threat was real. We needed them to survive and now we need to say goodbye to them in order to thrive...

Doug and Drew explore the idea that being solo is not just not about being alone or lonely. Drew is finding his confidence and strength in life outside of a relationship instead of making that one person in his life into the everything of his life. Drew is calibrating “the middle” rather than going all-in or all-out in situations, both in his personal life and his work life.

Drew explores what it means to experience life solo rather than go through his separation feeling lonely or alone. He and Doug talk about learning to balance the fairy tale, fantasy world version of love with the reality of what feels healthy and supportive. Doug helps Drew connect the anxiety about not knowing everything that’s going on for someone with people lying or concealing things – historically like his mom using substances. Doug and Meredith discuss balancing highs and lows, and not just staying flat in the middle.

Sarah feels righteous anger about a coworker that was let go. Doug helps her see that it’s a trigger for her own traumatic past when people in power abuse that power and wrong others. When it’s on someone else’s behalf, Sarah has insulation, protection, and deflection from her own wounds, making it easier to take up a quest for justice. She is able to draw the link to her own history of being wronged and abused by people in power in the cult and her previous marriage and jobs.

Drew continues the process of individuation. He sees that sharing his life with his mom is now a function of him being proud of himself, not him looking to her for reassurance and self-worth. Drew acknowledges his own physical body and the sensations that come along with his emotional experiences. Doug helps him understand how regulating his physical body can help him regulate his thoughts and feelings. Drew explores feeling spread thin and starts thinking about where he chooses to put energy now – not just doing everything everywhere for everyone and burning out.

Sarah felt validated and valued at work this week after a triggering annual review last week. Doug and Sarah explore how what she calls nonsense can make perfect sense to others. They break down issues of control and accountability. Sarah unpacks how her vigilance that others follow the rules is conditioning from her childhood in the cult.

Drew got emotionally triggered after a recent funeral for a friend from back home. Then he made a surprise visit to his parents for his mom’s birthday. Doug fills us in on what we missed in both Drew’s last session (#65) that didn’t get recorded, and a phone call that Drew and Doug had to process some relationship trouble. In the session Drew is able to go into the emotion underneath the recent triggers.

Drew learns to trust his gut more. He experiences being the son he wants to be for his parents, rather than the son he thinks they want him to be. He feels whelmed, not overwhelmed, but still needs support from people around him. Drew explores asking for forgiveness rather than asking for permission, and saying “thank you” instead of “I’m sorry.”

Sarah got triggered by a review at work which leads to an exploration of deeper issues. Doug helps her express anger and frustration about being powerless and misrepresented, especially when someone of authority is in control.

Drew feels his self-confidence grow, but acknowledges that his trust issues are still making him want constant reassurance in relationships. As he recovers from Covid, we explore and break down his relationship to smoking weed. Drew celebrates his baby steps and progress in the meta sense – from pronouncing the word “compartmentalize” to breaking codependence.

Doug redefines work-life balance: it’s a balance of work, rest, and play that are all under the umbrella of life. Sarah examines “play” in her life. She connects the hyper vigilance of being ‘mama bear’ for everyone around her to the trauma response that protects her from slowing down or stopping to feel the feelings.

Who doesn't love the smell of bacon? Drew manages Covid confusion and experiences letting go and trusting himself. He is slowing down without slowing down and acknowledges, “As a human being, you can only put up with so much.” He draws inspiration from his grandma - and shares a story about her that Mer loves!

Doug is on location in New York discovering the quiet, nature side of the city. Sarah and Doug dissect the associations she’s held in her head with being a trauma survivor and with being a victim. Sarah explores some recent triggers and exercises having compassion for the younger version of herself that was traumatized.

Drew continues to work on breaking codependence. He is looking at several relationships in his life, right as we're in the thick of the holiday season. He realizes that "not talking to somebody for a month, doesn't mean they don't love you." It's ok if you don't have someone showing you love right in front of you at all times, it's still there... and he's beginning to feel that that's true.

As Sarah talks about a stressful work relationship, Doug slows her down and helps her process being a trauma survivor. They examine how Sarah’s system learned to protect her from complex trauma in the past and how it still affects her current relationships.

Mer is back with Doug on the breakdowns, and might be a little jelly of the guest co-hosts... Drew is embracing being perfectly imperfect and not getting so caught up in the moment of disappointment, knowing it will be ok. And he will be ok. He calls Doug his mental muscle trainer, and he's flexing his muscles!

In an emotional session, Sarah vents about an issue she’s having with a coworker. This leads Doug to look deeper inside for what’s really going on with her. As he helps Sarah slow down in the session, she takes a deep breath and feels the emotional weight of stress she’s been holding and keeping inside.

Drew is directly affected by Covid hitting his family at Thanksgiving. Doug is joined by his colleague and therapy practice mate, Sasha Brodsky.

Drew reflects on his self-worth and thinks about it not coming from what he does for others, but rather truly from himself. Doug is joined in the breakdown this week by his colleague and friend, Bonnie Rae (who was on our first Roundtable in Season One!). Bonnie and Doug explore unmet attachment needs and breaking codependency.

Drew is unlearning codependency by building confidence in himself. From this strength he is finding community and feeling a sense of belonging that doesn't rely on other people's well being for his own. "I was ok when they weren’t disappointed but I was never really happy." -Drew Doug's colleague, Jen Parkford joins the Breakdown and offers her perspective.

Doug and Mer talk comets and cults while Doug corrects an earlier comment that the cult leader in Sarah’s case was caught - he wasn’t! He lived in hiding for over twenty years until he died. Sarah talks about school and education growing up in the cult. She explains the massive confusion and the ensuing tragedies experienced by many around her in the aftermath of leaving the cult.

Mer acknowledges Doug for his emotional and personal music album coming out in a few weeks; and then she gives him guff for not getting the podcast’s Patreon launched yet! It’s coming soon with ongoing Drew episodes and other exclusives for subscribers. In this session with Sarah, Doug helps her look at the inner critic that fuels perfectionism. This is often a trauma response from her growing up in an abusive cult with neglectful parenting.

Meredith imparts some knowledge to Doug (and us!) about invalidation trauma after a recent training. We get to know more about Sarah in her session as she talks about her work, her upbringing in the cult, and her anxiety that she carries around with her still. Doug helps Sarah understand the connection of making herself indispensable to a historic fear of abandonment.

Meredith updates us on the intruder in her backyard - who came back again! We continue the new season with Sarah, in spite of a few audio hiccups in the session. Doug and Sarah talk about feeling frustrated, annoyed, and overwhelmed when others don’t get to a solution as quickly and easily as you do, especially when that means you take it on and do it all yourself. This has been a part of Sarah for so long as a survival mechanism growing up in, and running away from, a cult. Doug and Mer highlight the process of helping clients like Sarah recognize and begin to change their patterns, rather than stay focused on the details and the content of their current narrative.

***Trigger warning*** This episode contains potentially triggering and sensitive topics including child abuse. If you suspect or know that a child is being abused or neglected, call or text 800-4-A-CHILD (800-422-4453). Professional crisis counselors are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, in over 170 languages. All calls are confidential. The new season continues with the second therapy session for Sarah, the new client in treatment with Doug. As they explore Sarah’s parenting style, she begins to tell some of her own story about growing up in a cult...

We’re baa-ack! In this new season kick off, Doug and Meredith are “a step up from sweatpants” and ready to dive back into it with us. We hear the first session with Doug and Sarah, the new client we’ll get to know and join for the journey in therapy. Sarah shares some of her history and acknowledges that she’s spent a lifetime compartmentalizing, but doesn’t truly have a handle on everything. We hear a few tips of the icebergs that have developed over time for her coming from a traumatic background. The groundwork for therapy is being set and we all get to follow along from the start!

In this Roundtable episode, Doug and Meredith are joined by fellow therapist Ashley McGirt and therapist in training Sahaj Kohli for a conversation about cultural issues in mental health and the world around us. The conversation explores stigma, discomforts, comforts, and experiences of issues around culture in their lives and work in mental health.

In this Roundtable episode, Doug and Meredith are joined by fellow therapist José Mata and psychiatrist Dr. Craig Heacock, both of whom work with the intersection of psychedelics and therapy. They look at current trends, research, and experiences of healing with the assistance of certain substances like MDMA, Ketamine, Ayahuasca, and Psilocybin. Join Doug and Mer for a unique conversation with these colleagues in the growing world of psychedelic assisted therapy.

Mer Mer launches herself into another dimension with Oculus, and this reminds Doug of a time when he was immersed in a virtual reality Star Wars experience. The session begins with Drew feeling a little down that he hasn’t lived up to the financial or material standard set by his father...

Mer Mer keeps her mind fresh and young by doing Sudoku. She and Doug give the update that they still have yet to shut down their computers at the end of each work day. Then, a very packed session with Drew uncovers a few big reasons why he has trust issues. Drew eases his burden by sharing some stories he’s never told before...